Humor, Heart, and Healing: Keeping It Together This Holiday Season

Lynn Kindler [00:00:00]:

Hi everybody. Welcome to Another Way to Think about it where real conversations replace right answers. We're Lynn and Cynthia, longtime friends, exploring life's messy questions with humor and heart.

Cynthia Zeito [00:00:22]:

Beautiful. So our topic today, and for literally the remainder of the month, is sanity during the holidays. Here we go. So Lane, how do you handle all the shiitake during the holidays?

Lynn Kindler [00:00:40]:

Well, I feel like I'm really lucky, Cynthia, because as you know, I've been doing all kinds of therapy and 12 step programs for a billion years. So I've got all kinds of tools. But you know what? I got to say, even with them, I'm still, I can still get, you know, crazy. And I was realizing that. And I do want us to give our listeners some tools that have worked for us too before. We have, absolutely. But I was realizing that this time of year was always loaded for me, regardless of me trying to be abstinent from alcohol, food, because my parents got divorced when I was 10. And so holiday times were always, you know, just.

Lynn Kindler [00:01:27]:

There was so much feeling happening, you know, from being excited to see my dad to my mother always having her meltdowns and just. And expectations that I had on myself for years. I had different levels of expectations, expectations, you know, being the good daughter, you know, carrying shame. I carried, I feel like I carried my dad's grief for a long time. So it's like holidays were just like. I'm, I'm surprised I didn't have diarrhea 247 back then.

Cynthia Zeito [00:02:04]:

Seriously. I know, there, there. It's pretty challenging emotionally. I don't care how steady, I don't care what we've done. It, it. Yeah, people we've lost, people that are no longer with us, so to speak. And then, you know, family dynamics, friends. Friends are my family too.

Cynthia Zeito [00:02:24]:

Really close friends like yourself, you know, you and David, you're, you're friggin family. So first things first, right? Breathe, everybody.

Lynn Kindler [00:02:34]:

Yeah. And you know what I like to tell my friends that I love and my people that I sponsor my programs, give everybody a lot of grace. And what I mean by that is take a deep breath. Breathe. You know, in the 12 step program of AA, they talk about first things first. I remember when I first came in and I hear, I heard some of those slogans, I thought they were so freaking. Yeah. But you know what? Then I'd be like in a really anxious ridden place and that was about all my brain could handle was something really simple.

Lynn Kindler [00:03:12]:

Yeah. So yeah, just. And give yourself permission. It's okay to walk away. I have spent A lot of time in the bathroom of different places when I have gone for holidays. And like, I remember one really yucky holiday with my mom and my grandparents, her parents, and they started get. Mom started doing her thing with freaking out. And anyway, there was all this fighting going on.

Lynn Kindler [00:03:40]:

And this was back when I was having rolling panic attacks. Thank you, God, I don't have that anymore. But anyway, I went into the bathroom and I just got down on my knees and I was praying and turning it over, and I just stayed in the bathroom until, you know, the storm went away.

Cynthia Zeito [00:03:59]:

That's the way. I mean, bring it to you. Bring the light in. I mean, what else are you going to do, Beg? I would just beg. Yeah. This holiday has been a beautiful challenge. You know, I'm in therapy as well for some dynamics in the family, which I adore. My family, you know, it's a beautiful, blended, gorgeous family.

Cynthia Zeito [00:04:22]:

And, you know, I'm on track. It's just I want to learn how to deal with certain mental health dynamics with another being and how it affects everybody. So anyway, I'm right on course, and I think that if we. We just take a moment to breathe and really watch, because I have to do that today. I had to do that just an hour ago when that little beautiful one and a half year old was right next to us. And she's crying and she's so sweet. Oh, my God. Just melt your heart.

Cynthia Zeito [00:05:02]:

Just breathe. Like, oh, I always go. My default is they don't like me, or that little one and a half.

Lynn Kindler [00:05:08]:

Year old doesn't like me.

Cynthia Zeito [00:05:10]:

And I'm like, oh, my God. Jim and I were, you know, we were laughing so hard because we're taking care of her just for a short period of time, and it's a blessing. And we were like, I'm. I'm literally getting jealous of this one and a half year old. And I had to go, oh, my God, I can't believe it. I'm what held, you know, and here I am. And we just cracked up because that's ridiculous. But that's okay.

Cynthia Zeito [00:05:38]:

I'm still a human being that has never done this before. So here we are in this lifetime. That is. It was just precious humor, guys.

Lynn Kindler [00:05:49]:

No, it's good to. It's good to be able to laugh with. And that's great. Yeah, that helps. My goodness. David and I do skits all the time with humor. You know, just kind of like taking whatever thing that we're working. Okay.

Lynn Kindler [00:06:06]:

So yesterday when I woke up, I was resentful. I woke up Resentful. And then I had a grudge against my husband. And we've been together for 35 years. Love each other very much. But I was just like. And I could feel it building. And I thought, is this.

Lynn Kindler [00:06:24]:

Is this holiday stuff? What? You know, I couldn't really point at it. It's like I thought I'd gotten rid of all that baggage. I must have a carry on in there somewhere. And, you know, finally, we. We. It was right after we had watched two movies and Frankenstein by Guillermo del Toro. I have. But anyway, you know, and I was like, honey, I need to admit something to you.

Lynn Kindler [00:06:52]:

I said, I. I have a grudge against you right now. And he was just like, what? And I said, yeah. And so he came over and kissed me and loved on me and everything else. And he was like, what's going on? I said, I don't know. I said, I think I'm taking things really personally. You know, you had said something the, you know, the other day about something that didn't feel very nice. And I said, we need to talk to each other nicer.

Lynn Kindler [00:07:19]:

But also, he was telling me that every month now, he's been having to take an extra $2,000 out of savings to pay our bills. Now, here's the thing. David's always been so much better at money than me, thank God. And he's really good about saving. But the thing you need to know about saving is David will take an obscene amount of money and sock it away. So, you know, sometimes you kind of. Kind of weigh and measure it. And I just got irritated that we were having to look at money again.

Lynn Kindler [00:07:53]:

And, you know, be careful with it, because it triggers so much stuff in me. And so I told him I admitted it. And of course, the minute I admitted it and he loved on me and hugged on me and kissed me.

Cynthia Zeito [00:08:06]:

It all gone. Yeah, it's gone. Absolutely gone. See, you're asking yourself, I think, also to name it what it is, no matter what. Like you. You have an emotion, because a lot of us just keep that stuff. I don't know what I'm feeling. I think if you just name it with your partner, like, honey, I'm feeling.

Cynthia Zeito [00:08:24]:

I, I, I own this.

Lynn Kindler [00:08:26]:

I.

Cynthia Zeito [00:08:27]:

God damn it. That works. It works.

Lynn Kindler [00:08:35]:

Well in this. And this morning, he woke up and he came in and he just started kissing me all over. And I said, honey, don't worry. I'm always gonna love you, you know, because I could tell that because I don't ever have grudges and stuff come up. But I think it was just all of the stuff I shared. And then being with some good friends of ours and this particular pair that we're really good friends with have a lot of money and they were sharing with some other friends that we haven't seen for a while. This additional obsema about of money that the guy had gotten because of some stuff he had done with this work. And so that also triggered my worthiness, all my money stuff, my value, just so much stuff.

Lynn Kindler [00:09:24]:

Right. And then, of course, who is it going to come out sideways with, Cynthia? It's going to come out sideways. My experience has been with those that you're closest to.

Cynthia Zeito [00:09:34]:

Yeah. And those that love you deeply, they're going to have a lot of girth and patience. Not penis girth, but just girth for our people. We love. I mean it. I mean it. Jim is so good with me. I can't believe it.

Cynthia Zeito [00:09:51]:

And I to him too, because what we're up against right now with this one and a half beautiful year old, it challenges. It challenges everything. But you grow from it. You just like are stretched beyond. I am. I'm stretched beyond what I think is my capacity because, you know, I didn't have children. I'm so blessed to be able to do this now and then really have a beautiful Thanksgiving. And they also have boundaries.

Cynthia Zeito [00:10:25]:

I'm learning that when I say boundaries, like if things are really crazy, active and the kids are, you know, I can have it just be a little more quiet and ask for that. So I'm learning how to ask for what I need and to step into that piece. And I don't want it around all the time because I live a real fun filled, active, calmish life and a lot of laughter. Gemini and our friends, right, Lynn?

Lynn Kindler [00:10:57]:

Hey, Cynthia, you know what I was thinking? Can you imagine being in our 20s and going through this with a year and a half and not working through anything and having all of our suitcases of luggage. Yeah.

Cynthia Zeito [00:11:10]:

Oh, you want to hear something really fun?

Lynn Kindler [00:11:13]:

Okay.

Cynthia Zeito [00:11:13]:

This is just Jim and I, last night I said something that was a little snippy to him and he just kind of turned his head and looked at me because he doesn't do that with me. He does. His stuff is different.

Lynn Kindler [00:11:24]:

Yeah.

Cynthia Zeito [00:11:25]:

He's just impatient or rolls his eyes or, you know, things like that. And I'm not. I like that. I'm a little bite your little ankle, like, you know, I do that kind of thing. And because we were both really up against some negativity in ourselves. And what did I do? I. I Just went, oh, my God, honey, I just realized I'm so arrogant with you. I think that I've come to this, a relationship with not hardly any baggage.

Cynthia Zeito [00:11:55]:

Yeah. And what I learned last night, yesterday from.

Lynn Kindler [00:12:00]:

Okay, bring it on in. Back it up.

Cynthia Zeito [00:12:03]:

Yeah. What I learned. I know I'm so arrogant because I've done all this spiritual work and all this, you know, really intense, you know, ego work, you name it. And I'm grateful for all that. And that spiritual arrogance is gross.

Lynn Kindler [00:12:18]:

It's like.

Cynthia Zeito [00:12:19]:

But. But so. So I cop to that. And I said, I think that I don't have anything really. Like, you have this in your family and that I've got to deal with. And. Well, guess what I learned yesterday in therapy, which is my spiritual growth right now. It is that I have limitations like I.

Cynthia Zeito [00:12:41]:

I have. And. And it's okay. It's just. I think that it should be this way. And. And so then I judge him because he's, like, so giving. It's so verbose and.

Cynthia Zeito [00:12:56]:

And his care and, you know, all that kind of stuff for everybody. And I think that I'm just chopped liver. I'm not. I. I mean, I just have a lot of work anyway, that's mine to do the work.

Lynn Kindler [00:13:07]:

So, anyway, always, always say, the day that we stop learning is the day we need to go home.

Cynthia Zeito [00:13:14]:

But to cop to it, to really own it and go, what the fuck am I out to here? I keep blaming everything out here. Not all the time, but it's good to ask.

Lynn Kindler [00:13:25]:

It's hard when you've worked on ourselves as hard as we have.

Cynthia Zeito [00:13:28]:

Yeah.

Lynn Kindler [00:13:28]:

Because we've done a lot. But you know what? It's. This is kind of like, in my opinion. And I asked God, you know, let me know your will for me today, whatever God is. Right. And be careful what you ask for, you know, because it's like, well, I want you to get down in here in the real world, and I want you. For instance, I have shared with you, Cynthia, my baby brother that's 19 years younger than me. When he.

Lynn Kindler [00:13:56]:

Since he and his wife have moved here, we haven't seen him that much. And it's been kind of like a fractious kind of relationship. And I gotta own it, you know, I was. I came on really strong. I wanted to help him find a job. He wasn't interested. I wanted to do this, meet him. I was just pushing my way because I thought it was the right way.

Cynthia Zeito [00:14:17]:

Yeah.

Lynn Kindler [00:14:18]:

And I know better, but I was. And so I've backed off a lot. And by the way, his. His mom, my stepmother, committed suicide by drinking herself to death around Thanksgiving.

Cynthia Zeito [00:14:32]:

Oh, honey.

Lynn Kindler [00:14:33]:

Of course, he was kind of like, you know, around the holidays, he was just like. And last year I took it so personally that he and his wife couldn't come spend Thanksgiving with us. Not, not thinking about that. And also that they have a business taking care of pets and they get really, really busy. So anyway, I had to do a lot of work on it because I really, you know, just decided I was going to take it personally. And this year his wife sent me a text like a few weeks back. Now, Lynn, I just want to let you know, you know, we're really busy with our pet sitting service and we're going to be doing that. We may have.

Lynn Kindler [00:15:11]:

Thanks. I was realizing, God, I must have really been a weirdo crush, whatever for her to be. And I wrote her back, I text her back and I said, thank you so much. That's so thoughtful of you to let me know. And we had a couple of really good texts back. And out of the blue my brother calls me, which he never does, and we talked for an hour. It was such a delicious conversation about so many things because he can get really deep, by the way. And it was.

Lynn Kindler [00:15:40]:

I was just really grateful for that. Why in the hell am I talking about this right now? Oh.

Cynthia Zeito [00:15:48]:

What, because you need to talk about this right now?

Lynn Kindler [00:15:51]:

No, I think it's because we were talking about the, the. They talk about false pride in my 12 step program when we dive into the steps of AA Recovery. And I think that's spiritual arrogance. Yeah, I, you know, it's like I walk this line where it's like I'm not enough. You know, this whole thing with the ego. And then the other side of it is. I'm not going to say this to your face, but I am so much more together than you.

Cynthia Zeito [00:16:25]:

Oh yeah.

Lynn Kindler [00:16:25]:

I do. So much more than you do. And it's like. And then it's like God invites us into the real world and says, here, we're going to put a one and a half year old in your life. You've never asked. And let you figure this out. Oh, by the way, you're going to be married just for a short while and then here. Poo.

Cynthia Zeito [00:16:43]:

You would take this?

Lynn Kindler [00:16:44]:

Yeah. No. Come on, get out of here.

Cynthia Zeito [00:16:48]:

But there's so much I have to say, even with this, where I've. I've thought that I've maxed, gotten so maxed emotionally, nervous system wise, all that, that there's all these blessings And I'll tell you that in a little bit that are. Because of how we're dealing it with it. Not necessarily my emotions, some of them are kind of yucky. But I'm received by Jim and by my friends, you know. So anyway, and I'll tell you more about that. It's really beautiful stuff to help people. Family and friends and neighbors are coming too us, you know.

Lynn Kindler [00:17:29]:

Yeah, that's it. When we let. When we let the divine in and we're willing to work on our side of the street. Our stuff. Lipstick on. By the way, my favorite lipstick, y'. All. It's number 762, L'.

Lynn Kindler [00:17:43]:

Oreal. A lot. A lot of us wear one that wear.

Cynthia Zeito [00:17:47]:

L'.

Lynn Kindler [00:17:48]:

Oreal Wear the same number.

Cynthia Zeito [00:17:51]:

Well, guess what? Mine is a Revlon. 423 Revlon.

Lynn Kindler [00:18:03]:

But anyway, what I love about it is when I let go and I, you know, I look at my stuff and I'm willing to be intimate and real and vulnerable. Then the love can come in. Oh, yeah, that stuff. Right. Beautiful stuff.

Cynthia Zeito [00:18:24]:

Beautiful, yeah.

Lynn Kindler [00:18:26]:

So it feels good to be. To be alive, but yesterday it did not feel good. Also, I want to say, Cynthia, you and I are very empathic. And I know there's a lot of us out there, meaning that we pick up a lot of stuff. And so I want to also talk about. Not only did we pick up all the stuff going on in our world around us, the people around us, but we're picking up things globally. And so when it all do tails together. Because the way my mind sees it is that we have a feeling that's happening in our un.

Lynn Kindler [00:19:04]:

In our own reality. And then it picks up all the other stuff that's going on out there. So that you are just carrying this huge load of stuff. And the only way I know to lighten it is to be real about it.

Cynthia Zeito [00:19:20]:

Yeah. Okay.

Lynn Kindler [00:19:22]:

I feel like my face, my head is just so much bigger than yours.

Cynthia Zeito [00:19:26]:

My head is big. I feel human beings, we're just heads.

Lynn Kindler [00:19:32]:

That's how I see them. Like this brown hedge. Yeah.

Cynthia Zeito [00:19:36]:

Jim's got a big head, too. You and Jim have actually big heads?

Lynn Kindler [00:19:40]:

I mean, I do have a big head. I have to wear a size 7 and 3/4 hat for it to fit on this. And do you know your heads? I mean, this is what I was born with. Okay. I don't understand this. So when I was a baby, I had the same size head, but. Cynthia, that would have looked really weird on a baby.

Cynthia Zeito [00:19:59]:

Oh, you did not. And listen, it grows. What are you talking about you had this head on a little critter, like.

Lynn Kindler [00:20:05]:

Oh, I know somebody said that your head never grows and it, it's the same size where it's like. Can you imagine?

Cynthia Zeito [00:20:17]:

Club. Look, it's a head. Oh, Jesus Christ.

Lynn Kindler [00:20:21]:

But it's like, I do know both my brother and I weighed nine pounds and some odd ounces. We were both born.

Cynthia Zeito [00:20:28]:

You're big babies.

Lynn Kindler [00:20:30]:

And my mom was little. She was like five, three little. And she weighed maybe 95 pounds, so. And these heads push through her. Well, that couldn't have been very much fun.

Cynthia Zeito [00:20:44]:

No, I know. And we're all trying to get back up in that womb somehow. Just right, right.

Lynn Kindler [00:20:51]:

I want to laugh. I need to laugh. I need you to be here so that we can be so silly, y'. All, I hope you have somebody in your life that just, you can be very silly with because it just helps one thing that you can do. You guys, I kid you not. We did this in yoga class. You can laugh. Just fake laughing until you laugh.

Lynn Kindler [00:21:12]:

It's great to do it with somebody else. But I've told you all about this. Cynthia knows about this. At the end of our yoga class, Murthy would have us all lay there and then we'd have to laugh for a minute and so we'd start off fake laughing like. And then, Then you really start laughing this funny because we'd be being so corny and somebody would be really super, super like. So it's good. It's good for your body, it's good for your mind, it's good for your soul just to, you know, move.

Cynthia Zeito [00:21:59]:

Orgasmic laughter.

Lynn Kindler [00:22:08]:

What would our gastro laughter be like?

Cynthia Zeito [00:22:12]:

I don't know that.

Lynn Kindler [00:22:13]:

Could it be.

Cynthia Zeito [00:22:16]:

You say, like friggin monkey or some kind of bird. There's probably somebody in the world that orgasms like that and has that kind.

Lynn Kindler [00:22:27]:

Of sound that sounds like some kind of an animal. I don't know what can. Okay, look at animal sounds. Can you make.

Cynthia Zeito [00:22:39]:

Well, give me an animal. I have no idea.

Lynn Kindler [00:22:42]:

Because there's weird ones I can do. I can do a mad mother cat. And believe me, I've done this when my cats have been biting and I'. And they will dislike. They're. They're fighting and I do that and they're like, yeah, yeah, it's kind of like. And I can do a puppy crying.

Cynthia Zeito [00:23:13]:

And she's being serious right now.

Lynn Kindler [00:23:15]:

What can you do? Pan?

Cynthia Zeito [00:23:17]:

Well, I, I don't know. I can commune with wild birds. I. I can.

Lynn Kindler [00:23:26]:

We.

Cynthia Zeito [00:23:26]:

We talk the same language like Roosters. You know, the wild roosters. I think that's what they're called when we're hiking and stuff. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Lynn Kindler [00:23:39]:

Yeah, I can really. Comedian with the wild roosters, huh?

Cynthia Zeito [00:23:47]:

Okay, so. Yes, turkeys. Wild turkeys. And when we're hiking way in the mountains, whatever. And they're. Yeah. And I'll be. What is it? What do I do? No, that's not it.

Cynthia Zeito [00:24:02]:

Anyway, when it comes up, I'll just do it impromptu. Okay, guys? But I can't right now because I'm on the spot. But Jim loves it.

Lynn Kindler [00:24:11]:

Forbid that somebody would say on the spot. Do your turkey. Do your best turkey gobble.

Cynthia Zeito [00:24:17]:

Yeah. Or something like that. Yeah. Yes. And the guy, the boy, whatever the they're called, they turn around and they're looking. I'm telling you.

Lynn Kindler [00:24:31]:

Wow.

Cynthia Zeito [00:24:32]:

I mean, they're like. And then we. Do we do this thing. Do we talk back and forth to each other while he's. Like.

Lynn Kindler [00:24:38]:

With crows.

Cynthia Zeito [00:24:42]:

Oh, that's great. Okay, do an. Okay, now do an elephant.

Lynn Kindler [00:24:46]:

I can't do that. But I have had conversations with. I had a conversation one time when I was laying out by the pool for 20 minutes with this crow back and forth. I have no idea what we were saying. I was giving it good thoughts. But they come and get up in our cottonwood tree, and whenever I hear them up there, do you know they mate for life?

Cynthia Zeito [00:25:08]:

Oh, that's sweet.

Lynn Kindler [00:25:09]:

I know. I love that.

Cynthia Zeito [00:25:11]:

I like mating too.

Lynn Kindler [00:25:13]:

I know. For life. So what we're doing is we're not descending into disintegrating this episode. We're trying to show you how to take things lightly and to be funny.

Cynthia Zeito [00:25:25]:

Yeah. I think that is really important, the lightness. Because we all get so intense with something, whatever it may be, that comes up, if not daily, right now. And people have a lot of feelings going on. So I think what you said about have grace give people room and space to just have it. You don't always need to say some. You know, 80% of what we think we need to say, we don't need to say. Actually, really and truly, that's really true.

Cynthia Zeito [00:25:56]:

It's so true. And I. It took me a long time until my 50s to learn that, but. Yeah. So anyway, I think it's. It's very humbling this time of year. And I'm so grateful today. I'm like, on.

Cynthia Zeito [00:26:11]:

You know, it's just so sweet.

Lynn Kindler [00:26:13]:

Vicki Sanders, who you knew, who was my sponsor that died, she used to say, if you gotta. Gotta say it or you gotta, gotta do it. You don't have to do either.

Cynthia Zeito [00:26:23]:

Ooh, ooh, who's my. I don't have a sponsor, but I'm not in a 12 step program.

Lynn Kindler [00:26:32]:

It's just somebody that can be like a mentor. Somebody that's a mentor in this life that, you know, I, I need, I like to have that and I like to do it with. I mean, some of the sponsor. I've had. I've had some sponsors for 17 years. I know.

Cynthia Zeito [00:26:48]:

And they're probably sponsored sponsors themselves, right?

Lynn Kindler [00:26:51]:

Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. You pass it on, right?

Cynthia Zeito [00:26:56]:

That's right, me.

Lynn Kindler [00:26:58]:

But it's good to have somebody else that understands, you know, the guidance posts that you're using for how you want to live your life, you know, as far as your values and your standards and your morals, that can be there, not in a judgmental way, but just as a guidepost. Because sometimes I can fake myself out, much less everybody around me, and be full of shit. And I need somebody gently to go, yeah. Or I need somebody that I can come to very safely and say, I'm having this thought or I said this thing or whatever. And they can give me the love that I can't give to myself so that I can finally go, okay, what's my part? What's real? What's not real? You know, what do I want to change? What are you. Because I think you and I have the same thing, Cynthia, where it's like we want to try to improve ourselves.

Cynthia Zeito [00:27:51]:

Not to look any which way. It's just. I want evolution, higher conscious. I don't want that. I want to live in that place. And I do. Mostly not consciously, like, okay, I'm going to. That's kind of phony.

Cynthia Zeito [00:28:08]:

But I love, I love higher consciousness because I think with that you just have more acceptance of all, you know, people in general, all people, and, and also compassion. I think when you said the empathic thing, there's tons of people that are just very open, very. They feel all that. And they're. Most people, I think are really good people. Not necessarily empathic, but I think we're naturally that way. We were born that way. And look at all of our experiences too.

Cynthia Zeito [00:28:42]:

It's lends itself to, I don't know, like, like, God, this is how I look at it. Everything is a gift. And that's your teacher. Like right now I've got a few good teachers in my life. Beautiful, beautiful teachers. And I just. Oh, I have to share something too, because I had a realization. I shared it with Buddy And I also shared it with an.

Cynthia Zeito [00:29:07]:

Another family member. Is that I. I think I shared this with you. Not sure. I woke up the other day and I was so angry. I was just angry. And I was angry at Jim, and it's like. I don't know.

Cynthia Zeito [00:29:21]:

I don't. It's not him. I was angry at addiction. I. I thought I was angry at a certain person, too, Jim and a certain person. What I found out is just I'm pissed off at addiction, pissed off at mental health issues that people suffer through, you know, that type of thing. So, anywho. And yeah, cough to it.

Lynn Kindler [00:29:47]:

By the way, Cynthia, that's really lovely because it's much better, I think, for us to. When. If somebody is drinking or using their drug of choice or whatever it is to be angry about the disease of the alcoholic abuse, the. Whatever abuse and the addiction rather than the human.

Cynthia Zeito [00:30:10]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Lynn Kindler [00:30:12]:

No, I think that's actually recovery, when we can move to the place where we take it out of personalizing it with a person. Because the way that I have learned about active alcoholism or addiction and the way it affects me, boy, it feels all consuming. It's a blur. It's really hard where. Where they ended, you begin. It's all about them. But then when you can get some distance from it and realize, oh, there's. There's a behavior attached to this, you know, addiction that's happening that I do not like, then it can get to a place where, okay, I'm going to acknowledge that.

Lynn Kindler [00:30:54]:

Boy, I hate this freaking addiction. And then you can get to a place where it's like, okay, what do I need to do to take care of myself? Yada, yada, yada, yada. Right?

Cynthia Zeito [00:31:03]:

Most people, yeah, that's a beautiful topic. And I want to end what we're doing here. I want to thank everybody for spending time with us today. If this episode gave you another way to think about insanity during the holidays, sanity during the holidays, hit. Subscribe and join us next time for another honest, curious conversation. We love you and have a blessed day.

Lynn Kindler [00:31:32]:

Bye, y'. All.